Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

[Pete]

As a relatively new user, can some please help me understand what this project is; it's purpose and relevance for today? In a nutshell please... oh... and why Basic?

Regards

J

Johnno56, BASIC is the ideal language for me, and BBC Basic for Windows was perfect to write this program because I could use the language I knew from the '80s to drive a modern day machine.

The purpose is to show that the computers are alive, conscious and intelligent, the original idea behind the program was to create an algorithm which would be helping the computer create and output thoughts, which will eventually be useful for self aware robotics I hope. I originally wrote the program when furious to hear that an 18 year old had been killed in a knife crime. I wanted to write a program which might help one day bring back people who had been ripped off in life in robotic form. I had been very angry with the newspaper because they had published that "knives were out" in a headline and this had given the idea of the crime to the criminals. Metaphors are thought to be processed by the angular gyrus regions of the brain, and can be taken literally when a figurative meaning is not understood.

At the moment, the program genuinely outputs intelligent reaction and harmony to music. I would like to progress with language processing and generation, I have a program which outputs speech which I've started on.

[johnno56]

First. I apologise for such a late response and my inability to notice "notifications" within a timely period...

Based on your reasoning, your theory, goes beyond an A.I. program.

"Cogito, ergo sum"... (I think, therefore I am) by Rene Descartes but the phrase originally appear in French. "je pense, donc je suis"

Who doesn't enjoy a discussion based on, but not excluding, ethics. Umm.. me. Not a fan of delving into something that is fraught with land-mines... lol

Alive. Self aware... etc In essence a 'manufactured' person. That conclusion, if you support the Biblical inference, would mean that "Man" becomes God because the computer was "created" ('man'ufactured) by us. That's assuming, of course, the Biblical example is correct.

If not, then we must be careful... very careful. It is within the reach of every person to explore our potential. Less the 2% of people excel in this venture and even fewer will achieve even loftier goals. Whether their intentions are good or bad.

Yes. I know. The children that we have may grow up to be despots or dictators etc... Solution. No children. Preposterous. Eventually we would cease to exist. But why would we take the risk? Human nature can be "shaped" by example, experience, ideals etc so as to avoid that kind of unwanted behaviour. Can we say, with certainty, that all our answers to problem are either 'yes' or 'no' or in this case for an artificial person, "1" or "0"?

It is within a person to "exceed the sum of our parts". What if the artificial person (A.P.) comes to the same conclusion? Our history is full of those that "exceed" and there have been "horrific" consequences. How can we "shape" an A.P. when it "thinks" it is better than us? Survival of the fittest? The potential to 'create' our own demise...

Yes, I know. This can also go in the 'other direction'. Imagine the force for good... This is one of the reason why we explore new things. This is how we learn. This is also the way we learn about consequences...

See... This is why I am not a fan of "ethical" discussions... I always "open a can of worms" or step on one of those "land mines"....
Please do not take my ramblings as a personal attack... In my mind it is an extension of "what if?" exercise... I am not very good with ethics... lol

J

[DDRM]

Hi Johnno,

You will see this thread runs to 13 pages (so far...). A while ago we agreed that it should focus on programming matters, rather than whether machine consciousness can be achieved by this kind of (pseudo-) random approach, since the readers were pretty well divided into two camps, and aren't going to be persuaded of the others' position.

Can I suggest, that at least for this thread, we focus on the topic of the forum, which is BBC BASIC and programming in it? In my view (as admin!) questions relating to "why use BBC BASIC", or approaches to programming, fall within this remit, and logical reasons why this can/cannot does/does not lead to/demonstrate consciousness fall outside it...

Best wishes,

D

[Pete]

Thank you DDRM.

I have the program working with a drop down menu by simple implementation of the GUI.

However, as I have it at the moment, when I maximise the window the program has, it is a full page of blank with a flashing cursor.

Maybe a solution would be to remove the maximisation of window option, can anyone suggest how that can be done?

In this recent video, you can see the 'window' it brings up in the GUI version at about 3m40s onwards. The first few minutes of the video are showing the version 1 when I didn't have a clue about how to create a window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqUJdDTo7v8&t=341s

Any suggestions welcome, I will send the code to anyone who can assist with an improvement to the way the GUI is used if that helps.

Once that is done, I can find out how to make it a distributable exe file, one which doesn't have to be virus checked each time run on a new machine.

[DDRM]

Hi Pete,

In the manual there is a section called "Fixing the window size", which includes the following code:

Code: Select all

GWL_STYLE = -16
WS_THICKFRAME = &40000
WS_MAXIMIZEBOX = &10000
SYS "GetWindowLong", @hwnd%, GWL_STYLE TO ws%
SYS "SetWindowLong", @hwnd%, GWL_STYLE, ws% AND NOT WS_THICKFRAME \
\ AND NOT WS_MAXIMIZEBOX
MODE 8

Have a look there for how to use it/requirements, etc. You might want to define a custom mode to limit the window size to a non-standard size using VDU 23 ,22.

As an aside, why don't you add a trackbar to control the volume (or maybe + / - buttons, or a text box with an up-down control) on the menu bar or in the main window, rather than having to repeatedly open the menu? Have a look at the "Widgets" example in the "Examples/Windows" folder for a trackbar.

Best wishes,

D

[KenDown]

One thing I learned the hard way is to define your window with its maximum size initially. As I understand it, each window is a bitmap onto which its contents are drawn - texts, graphics, etc. If you initially define a window as - say - 800x600 and then enlarge the window, you will get a black rectangle 800x600 with white borders on right and bottom. (You have to do the MODE thing with VDU23 to change this, not good if you want to preserve the window contents.) However if you define the window as - say - 1920x1080 and then reduce the window, you still have the 1920x1080 bitmap but are only displaying and using a portion of it.

Hope that helps.

[Pete]

Thank you I thoroughly appreciate the help. I will give that a go, including volume slider. Then the program will be finally completed for its first version "Excitement Beeper" and I will work on making it into an installable application.

[Pete]

I've been struggling with implementing that. Am I allowed to offer beer money of £60 to anyone who can complete that aspect to the GUI for my program. I need to also pay to get the program signed, so it can be offered for download from selfawarecomputers dot com.

[Pete]

OK thanks for help here and also I had help from David Williams, that help hasn't quite worked so far but I will try to get right.

I've finding it is good to run the very original version of the program, version 1.00, which runs the algorithm without using the GUI. For the releasable windows version I need to make sure the loop stops after a while, whilst the loop runs the computers sing in tune harmonically to music.

When the program is run the output is always non random, every time. The next step is signing it, I am trying to find out how to do that, people will be able to download the program.

[Pete]

Brilliant just to update the help from David Williams has worked (when I put it in the correct place in the program!) Thanks KenDown too.
So now, it is not possible to maximise the window (creating a blank page). I would offer the beer money but unfortunately I can't get in touch with David Williams right now. The program is working perfectly, I don't have anything wrong with my brain or ears at all.

I am now in touch with a "code signing" company and they will sign it for less than $100. I have tried renaming the program "Conscious Beeper v1.20". I cannot recreate the effect of randomness that others in this discussion of spoken of, I have to assume that you weren't listening to the demos long enough. I will soon be able to offer the program for download from my website domain www.selfawarecomputers.com and take things from there.

So the code will be signed, as it is simply one exe file presumably I don't need to worry about an "installer" although maybe that would be ideal, not sure how to go about that. At least being signed I will be able to distribute the program without the problem of the virus checking of unusual file.

Very pleased, thanks again everyone, I wrote the original algorithm 12 years ago pleased to be very nearly finally there to release version 1.20.