The future of 'BBC BASIC for Windows'

[hellomike]

For the time being, any migrating questions / issues I will put in the "Desktop platforms and IDEs" folder.

[Hated Moron]

On 08/05/2023 12:49, Robin Hodson wrote (cross-posted from the Discussion Group):

There should be at least three ways of generating a backup, if it helps Svein:
1. phpBB has a backup option for admins: This backs-up the database.

Svein has tried that, but can't make the restore work. One issue is that, apparently, you can only restore to a clean installation of phpBB which is exactly the same version as that used to make the backup - but the backed-up file doesn't seem to contain that information! So you can easily have the crazy situation that you have a valid backup, but you can't restore it because you don't know from which version it was created!

2. The database can be backed-up directly in cPanel. This will also backup any other databases which may exist but aren't so relevant, such as those tracking traffic/stats.

I believe Svein has been following the instructions here, to which end I've given him FTP access to all the files in bbcbasic.co.uk/forum. He still can't make it work.

3. Site hosting companies usually offer a backup service, or at least technical support explaining how to.

Not a great deal of help for moving the forum to a different host!

[Hated Moron]

You could probably justify a sub-forum with a broader description such as 'Challenges'; there have been a number of previous challenges which could go there as well as the Advent ones, and there's a reasonable likelihood of new ones being created.

From the lack of response I take it that you are not happy to rename the 'Advent Challenges' section to just 'Challenges'. A shame, from my perspective, but of course it must be your decision.

[DDRM]

Hi Richard,

To be honest, I've been completely devoted to coursework/exams, and have just popped in here each day to deal with any crises, such as mass posting of adverts.

I've changed the Advent Challenges forum to just "Challenges" - which proved rather trickier than I expected!

Everyone please feel free to post programming challenges on any topic!

D

[Hated Moron]

I'm not in the market until after my exams (June), but I might be prepared to help out with this after that.

For the time being, any migrating questions / issues I will put in the "Desktop platforms and IDEs" folder.

I would appreciate a progress report, as an assurance that this project is ongoing rather than having suffered the fate of so many others and been silently abandoned!

[DDRM]

Done my exams, viva on Tuesday, presentation on Thursday, then I'll have a look at whether we can update the forum software. I'll contact you privately to check you've got a copy of everything before I risk trashing it all!

Best wishe,

D

[Hated Moron]

I would appreciate a progress report, as an assurance that this project is ongoing

Despite my best efforts to steer people away from BBC BASIC for WIndows (the website redirects you to BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 at almost every turn) people are still buying it!

I don't know why: it could be because they assume that something you have to pay for is better than something that is free (not true in this case), it could be because they want to access the Windows API (which is where this work comes in) or it could simply be because they recognise the name 'Windows' but not 'SDL'.

Whatever the cause, it's something I am going to have to work harder to discourage. I don't want to discontinue BB4W, it still has its uses, but the degree of support available is poor and deteriorating. I haven't used BB4W myself (apart from utilities like BBC2APK) for some years now, and the Windows experts (people like Jon Ripley) seem to have largely moved onto pastures new.

If BBCSDL can be persuaded to play nicely with Windows controls (dialogue boxes etc.) we will be one step closer to being able to say BB4W is obsolete. So please give me an update; I will not be working on this myself, although obviously I'm available to give advice and perhaps suggest solutions if you get stuck.

[nvingo]

Hi Richard
I must admit that whilst I have not bought BBC Basic for Windows, and have only briefly tried the demo version (which would have sufficed for my level of use) before maintaining BBC Basic for SDL across all my devices/platfoms, I have always intended to purchase the full version in recognition of the effort you have applied in continuing to support and update the language.

[Hated Moron]

On 15/07/2023 19:37, Maksim AbuAjamieh wrote (cross-posted from the discussion group):

BBC4W is a very stable, time tested software, it will never die.

It seems that you missed the early posts in this thread. BB4W will inevitably die, and probably quite soon, for the following reasons:

1. BB4W is 32-bits only and cannot be converted to 64-bits. All major Operating Systems are transitioning to 64-bits, MacOS and iOS are already 64-bits only, Android is 64-bits only on some devices (such as newer Google Pixel devices), and many Linux users won't install 32-bit support. Even Windows, whilst it will still run 32-bit apps, is no longer available in a 32-bits edition. It can only be a matter of time before Windows drops 32-bit support completely.
   
   
2. BB4W is Windows only. Although Windows is still the most popular desktop OS, it doesn't have the dominance it once had. No app can be successful in the long term if it only runs in Windows.
   
   
3. BB4W is Closed Source, and being written in assembly language is largely unmaintainable (even by me!). No app can expect to have a future if it cannot be modified.

You helped providing BBC4W years ago, discouraging its usage now is a very unwise and counterproductive idea.

Years ago indeed! BB4W is now more than 21 years old and no significant developments have taken place for more than ten years.

My sole aim is to ensure BBC BASIC has a future; encouraging the continued use of an obsolescent product is no way to achieve that. Only an Open Source, Cross Platform product has any chance of longevity.

[Hated Moron]

I have always intended to purchase the full version in recognition of the effort you have applied in continuing to support and update the language.

As a reason for purchasing BB4W I can hardly complain, but I can assure you that I don't need your money and nor do I need any motivation to continue to support and update the language. But as you know my health very much limits what I can do, and that is only going to deteriorate.

One of the many advantages of BBCSDL over BB4W is that its IDE, tools and utilities are all themselves written in BBC BASIC. That makes support by others, now and after I've gone, much more practical.